tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post1259356803260448379..comments2024-01-24T04:02:06.466-05:00Comments on Why I De-Converted from Evangelical Christianity: The Christian Delusion: Chapter Twelve--At Best Jesus Was A Failed Apocalyptic ProphetKen Pulliamhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12161943466797514854noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-3560814530929675932016-05-25T22:35:55.560-04:002016-05-25T22:35:55.560-04:00You did not read one word of the article nor could...You did not read one word of the article nor could you ever understand it. Darrenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11026442947226061922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-22233266402388309262014-01-10T02:53:54.259-05:002014-01-10T02:53:54.259-05:00Weren't these people talking about the end of ...Weren't these people talking about the end of astrological ages?Calanthehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17237400678086592609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-15211109155919535932013-12-30T03:27:56.551-05:002013-12-30T03:27:56.551-05:00Read the passages in the tanakh (that supposedly r...Read the passages in the tanakh (that supposedly refers to jesus) and you'll see that it has nothing to do with him. The new testament never was, can or will be the word of yah. Apologetics can't save this sinking ship. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-78260045539853419832012-07-27T16:12:03.974-04:002012-07-27T16:12:03.974-04:00I think this guy has the best response to this cha...I think this guy has the best response to this challenge:<br /><br />http://www.apologeticsinthechurch.com/58/post/2012/07/jesus-apocalyptic-prophet-yes-failed-fanatical-apocalyptic-prophet-no-not-even-if-we-adopt-a-schweitzerian-framework.htmlTruth Seekerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01786844757672182664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-90525546404465073912010-05-24T01:21:39.343-04:002010-05-24T01:21:39.343-04:00Ken, I post @ TWEB, finding it on the whole congen...Ken, I post @ TWEB, finding it on the whole congenial for my naturalism1!John and you don't agree, fine. I ignore the insults.<br />Chaz, is putting contrary words into our friend's mouth. John provides enough evidence for us to follow up on: otherwise, the chapter would be a whole book in itself.<br /> Skeptic Griggsy, besides similar names, Ignostic Morgan, Inquiring Lynn and many others to Google. <br /> Yes to retirement! Go to Thales @Blogggers.com, and Carneades @Aimoo.com amongst others of my blogs.<br /> Google that name to see that I mean to eviscerate Godism!<br /> Morgan-Lynn Griggs LamberthAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-20198267484936190222010-05-21T13:06:45.109-04:002010-05-21T13:06:45.109-04:00Chaz,
I don't want to turn this blog into ano...Chaz,<br /><br />I don't want to turn this blog into another TWEB where insults are thrown around constantly. If you have a specific argument against the post, then make it and we can discuss it civilly.Ken Pulliamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12161943466797514854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-34405730581638343792010-05-21T11:41:36.221-04:002010-05-21T11:41:36.221-04:00As usual, and by his own admission (Loftus quote: ...As usual, and by his own admission (Loftus quote: "My goal was to overwhelm the believer") Loftus tries to overload the reader with data that he hasn't even gone through or tried to understand himself.<br /><br />He even admits as such: "in order to overwhelm the believer I had to question every key belief of Christianity, my problem was that as a mere mortal I could not have a scholar's grasp on every topic in it... sometimes I merely refer believers to what scholars in their respective fields of research have argued... I constantly refer my readers to the scholars who argue my case for me. "<br /><br />IOW, Loftus throws stuff around that he doesn't understand. Pretty honest, eh? Funny thing is, when his stuff is shoveled up and cast back at him, he ends up out of his league, getting his backside handed to him. Exhibit A:<br /><br />http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?t=57251chaz millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05211095136616062874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-78693044331555855662010-05-20T16:15:49.018-04:002010-05-20T16:15:49.018-04:00"Historical J....."!?!
The persons usin..."Historical J....."!?!<br /><br />The persons using that contra-historical oxymoron (demonstrated by the eminent late Oxford historian, James Parkes, The Conflict of the Church and the Synagogue) exposes dependancy upon 4th-century, gentile, Hellenist sources.<br /><br />While scholars debate the provenance of the original accounts upon which the earliest extant (4th century, even fragments are post-135 C.E.), Roman gentile, Hellenist-redacted versions were based, there is not one fragment, not even one letter of the NT that derives DIRECTLY from the 1st-century Pharisee Jews who followed the Pharisee Ribi Yehoshua.<br />Historians like Parkes, et al., have demonstrated incontestably that 4th-century Roman Christianity was the 180° polar antithesis of 1st-century Judaism of ALL Pharisee Ribis. The earliest (post-135 C.E.) true Christians were viciously antinomian (ANTI-Torah), claiming to supersede and displace Torah, Judaism and ("spiritual) Israel and Jews. In soberest terms, ORIGINAL Christianity was anti-Torah from the start while DSS (viz., 4Q MMT) and ALL other Judaic documentation PROVE that ALL 1st-century Pharisees were PRO-Torah.<br /><br />There is a mountain of historical Judaic information Christians have refused to deal with, at: www.netzarim.co.il (see, especially, their History Museum pages beginning with "30-99 C.E.").<br />Original Christianity = ANTI-Torah. Ribi Yehoshua and his Netzarim, like all other Pharisees, were PRO-Torah. Intractable contradiction.<br /><br />Building a Roman image from Hellenist hearsay accounts, decades after the death of the 1st-century Pharisee Ribi, and after a forcible ouster, by Hellenist Roman gentiles, of his original Jewish followers (135 C.E., documented by Eusebius), based on writings of a Hellenist Jew excised as an apostate by the original Jewish followers (documented by Eusebius) is circular reasoning through gentile-Roman Hellenist lenses.<br /><br />What the historical Pharisee Ribi taught is found not in the hearsay accounts of post-135 C.E. Hellenist Romans but, rather, in the Judaic descriptions of Pharisees and Pharisee Ribis of the period... in Dead Sea Scroll 4Q MMT (see Prof. Elisha Qimron), inter alia.<br /><br />To all Christians: The question is, now that you've been informed, will you follow the authentic historical Pharisee Ribi? Or continue following the post-135 C.E. Roman-redacted antithesis—an idol?Anders Branderudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12590420531095058999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-3942251988823393212010-05-19T17:47:50.095-04:002010-05-19T17:47:50.095-04:00I for one totally disagree. Just because you made...I for one totally disagree. Just because you made a mental acceptance of Christ at the age of 18 does not negate the fact that there are thousands of us who have lived a long life, with many difficulties, yet the Lord has always proved faithful when called upon. One thing is for sure, even in my darkest hours I refused to bow to the enemy and denounce my Lord and Savor Jesus the Christ. My life has been a continually growth and change as I have learned to trust Him in all circumstances.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09426805598333874617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-53319089411884900662010-05-19T14:53:39.560-04:002010-05-19T14:53:39.560-04:00key point: "The authors were reinterpreting t...key point: "The authors were reinterpreting these prophecies just like every failed doomsday cult has done in order to survive as a community (pp. 333-34)."<br /><br />The survival of the community trumps all other considerations. Their sense of identity comes from association with their group, so revising the group's self-definition or disbanding it would be disastrous for them. An individual has a certain amount of safety and self-efficacy through belonging to a family, but much more by belonging to the extended family of believers.<br /><br />And like Jim Jones, David Koresh, and all the other Doomsday prophets, those of early Christianity would do anything to hold their power over their people. In those days, it wasn't as difficult as it is today, though who knows? The Dead Sea Scroll writers could have committed mass suicide too. Nobody would have lived to tell the tale.LadyAtheisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12132821431322748921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-86878743050838307912010-05-19T11:41:09.433-04:002010-05-19T11:41:09.433-04:00John Loftus is spot on in this chapter. I, too, h...John Loftus is spot on in this chapter. I, too, had long ago been persuaded to favor the Apocalyptic Prophet view (or "Eschatological Prophet", as Sanders prefers -- semantics, I think). I came over to this view from a mythicist position, having previously been in the neighborhood of the Earl Doherty / Robert Price camps (Price is a bit weaker on mythicism). To this day I still favor the Apocalyptic Prophet view. I'll add that Geza Vermes appears to also possibly hold to this view, at least from what I can tell from having read several of his books. He's a notable scholar (extensive Dead Sea Scrolls work), which I so far only disagree on his view of the "Son of Man" meaning in the gospels, which I see as his oversimplification in proposing that Jesus always or almost always used this phrase to simply mean "me/myself", which I think often refers to an eschatological third party other than Jesus. He doesn't seem to think so.Chris Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07742083009211346119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-59132539577588635042010-05-19T04:14:26.428-04:002010-05-19T04:14:26.428-04:00Christian pretzelization efforts to follow in 3, 2...Christian pretzelization efforts to follow in 3, 2, 1 ...Lazarushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11002628037154288374noreply@blogger.com