tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post6007269803967288976..comments2024-01-24T04:02:06.466-05:00Comments on Why I De-Converted from Evangelical Christianity: Gregory the Great on the Injustice of Punishing an InnocentKen Pulliamhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12161943466797514854noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-75839529517232204392010-09-07T08:04:02.999-04:002010-09-07T08:04:02.999-04:00JohnD,
My posts today and tomorrow may help. Yes,...JohnD,<br /><br />My posts today and tomorrow may help. Yes, the Israelites saw purification as one of the effects of a blood sacrifice. However, it is a big jump in logic to say that they saw the sacrifice as bearing a penalty in their place. This article by <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1jufpV0nLqaOblEGJRQOpqiKBMeOZhiBcPm5dikG3zic&hl=en&authkey=CLX_7L0M" rel="nofollow">John Goldingay</a> may be helpful in explaining the concepts involved.Ken Pulliamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12161943466797514854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-57805266473656686122010-09-06T19:49:53.867-04:002010-09-06T19:49:53.867-04:00Ken,
I was thinking of specific passages that spe...Ken,<br /><br />I was thinking of specific passages that speak of individual cleansing, which appear to be foreshadowing substitution. Leviticus 14 comes to mind. As a Christian, I realize that I am somewhat inclined to see substitution everywhere, but isn't this a good example that substitution was part of "the plan" from the beginning? I know you probably don't have time to answers this for me in detail, but could you recommend a good book that would explain to me why this isn't foreshadowing the substitutionary work of Christ? Will these types of passages be addressed in your forthcoming book?JohnDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09435939804640200795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-22744241819968960092010-09-05T16:22:40.720-04:002010-09-05T16:22:40.720-04:00JohnD,
Thanks for your comments. I think what you...JohnD,<br /><br />Thanks for your comments. I think what you see in the OT and also in Paul is the concept of "<a href="http://formerfundy.blogspot.com/2010/03/collective-guilt-and-original-sin.html" rel="nofollow">Collective Culpability</a>." The idea that a family, a tribe, or even a country is somehow held culpable for what one or more within the group had done. This seemed to be a prevalent concept among the ancients who were less individualistic as we. I think this is how Paul was able to come up with the idea that the whole human race is culpable for Adam's sin.Ken Pulliamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12161943466797514854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-63269701925248717212010-09-05T15:16:56.968-04:002010-09-05T15:16:56.968-04:00Ken,
I am really enjoying your series on PST. Ho...Ken,<br /><br />I am really enjoying your series on PST. However, I am struck by the fact that the Old Testament seems to foreshadow PST, the innocent taking the place of the guilty. It does not seem to be a creation of Paul.JohnDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09435939804640200795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-12598668761396276092010-09-04T14:39:45.227-04:002010-09-04T14:39:45.227-04:00Isn't all this stuff negated by the fact that ...Isn't all this stuff negated by the fact that God is punishing <i>himself</i> to fulfill his own covenant, which was designed to pay a price he determined in order to lift a curse on our souls he put on us? But wait! It's still not done! He's coming back on a donkey to make everything better!<br /><br />Oy.Mike Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04097261108461657167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-15179654707788571222010-09-03T11:46:56.125-04:002010-09-03T11:46:56.125-04:00James,
Happy to help anyway I can.James,<br /><br />Happy to help anyway I can.Ken Pulliamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12161943466797514854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-33790810030075727372010-09-03T11:46:34.027-04:002010-09-03T11:46:34.027-04:00John,
The problem is that it is unjust to punish ...John,<br /><br />The problem is that it is unjust to punish an innocent person (and God is supposed to be just in all that he does. If he does an injustice, then he has sinned).<br /><br />Also it does not make sense how punishing an innocent is able to justly substitute for what the guilty deserves. How do you make the transfer? If I commit a crime and deserve to go to jail, how would sending my brother to jail satisfy the penalty that I owe? It doesn't make sense. I could see how I could just be pardoned but to have someone else serve my sentence seems pointless unless God just needs to punish somebody before he can forgive.Ken Pulliamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12161943466797514854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-38640178777195826942010-09-03T09:36:14.771-04:002010-09-03T09:36:14.771-04:00Dear Ken,
First of all I just want to say how much...Dear Ken,<br />First of all I just want to say how much I have enjoyed reading your articulate writings on your blog. Your own deconversion story is also very inspiring: I am an ex-Christian myself, so know what you have gone through. <br /> <br />Reason for email is that I am writing a book on ex-Christians and their testimonies. I am a researcher in an English University in public policy normally but I am doing this in my spare time. You can find more details of the book here:<br /><br />http://new.exchristian.net/2010/07/ex-christian-experiences-book.html<br /> <br />I would be very interested in using your own story in the book I am writing. If you were to agree to this, I would use a pseudonym in the book as I will with all the testimonies I am collecting. Please get back to me regarding your reaction to this and if you have any questions concerning the project. My email is Exchristiantestimonies@hotmail.co.uk <br /><br />Many thanks,<br />JamesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-9868460152405314142010-09-03T08:53:26.173-04:002010-09-03T08:53:26.173-04:00He had not undergone a death that was not His due,...He had not undergone a death that was not His due, He would never have freed us from the death due to us.<br /><br />Ken,<br />Like this guy says, there is no other way to do it if you want to have a salvation for a sinful people.John Sfiferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00875271904363363020noreply@blogger.com