tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post7591341871540003772..comments2024-01-24T04:02:06.466-05:00Comments on Why I De-Converted from Evangelical Christianity: Evangelical Pastors are Discouraged and DepressedKen Pulliamhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12161943466797514854noreply@blogger.comBlogger48125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-51859960826094193322017-12-02T19:40:31.750-05:002017-12-02T19:40:31.750-05:00Dear fionn, the need to refuel is a human conditio...Dear fionn, the need to refuel is a human condition. Ask any parent. There are parents out there who love their children, and have to remind themselves every single day that their lives are richer because their children are in it. Nice try anyway;)Suehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12009191540139452049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-49476167506880003652015-08-05T07:38:38.565-04:002015-08-05T07:38:38.565-04:00develop with the best part of software please foll...develop with the best part of software please follow us on :-<br />The extra <a href="http://www.downriverdesign.com" rel="nofollow">New Orleans Mobile App Development</a> or added way round on part of that can help in giving the direction is by <br /><br />categorizing the <a href="http://www.downriverdesign.com" rel="nofollow">Software Development New Orleans</a> item or obsessions with <a href="http://www.downriverdesign.com" rel="nofollow">New <br /><br />Orleans Web Development</a> the main purpose will be working forum one to the fresh as well as latest <a href="http://www.downriverdesign.com" rel="nofollow">Web Design New Orleans <br /><br /></a>point of actions. 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Sure, there will be times of disappointment and discouragement, but there are going to be times of happiness as well. So depends on the day, time, situations that are felt. But even in the times of discouragement, it is possible to have joy. Even the apostle Paul felt times of pressure and discouragement - 2 Cor 4, 2 Cor 7:5-13, 2 Cor. 11:28-29, etc. What brought those on? Being beaten up physically for his mission. Carrying the concerns of the people to whom he ministered. Sure there are time of disappointment such as watching someone make devastating choices, are blow up their family, or suffering and illness. But there are really good times in helping someone be able to turn life around, marriages put back together, etc. There are valuable lessons learned through adversity about the faithfulness of God and personal growth through times of hardship. Pastors were never meant to be plastic and immune to hardship and difficulty. There are many valuable lessons learned through those times as both the book of James, 1 Peter and other scripture passages show. If pastors went through life without facing and sharing in the emotions of life, then there would be charges that they didn't live in the real world. So yes, there are many seasons of life and emotions, but ultimate victory found in Jesus!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-58796606533322277042013-10-09T09:04:31.392-04:002013-10-09T09:04:31.392-04:00My M.Div. required thesis and D.Min a dissertation...My M.Div. required thesis and D.Min a dissertation. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-35301864634771297672013-03-26T05:13:30.319-04:002013-03-26T05:13:30.319-04:00That's normal because we are living in this fa...That's normal because we are living in this fallen world. We can't avoid disappointments and discouragements but if we love God and trust him wholeheartedly, we will still fight and stand for his glory!<br /><br /><a href="http://calvaryoakville.com/" rel="nofollow">Church Mississauga</a><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03931983241745945558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-67486825835960301962013-03-26T05:12:05.582-04:002013-03-26T05:12:05.582-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03931983241745945558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-3295183950554331452012-04-05T19:54:53.474-04:002012-04-05T19:54:53.474-04:00Ken,
Thank you for your very wise and challenging ...Ken,<br />Thank you for your very wise and challenging comments. As a clinical social worker turned pastor, I believe that authenticity and congruence are factors that help to determine whether one will burnout. I'll comment on clergy here: When pastors recognize that they are human, struggles with sin and character flaws like anyone else, and are dependent on God's guidance and grace, then they are in a position emotionally and spiritually to help others. When clergy view themselves as super-spiritual, morally superior, or immune from suffering, then they will suffer the cognitive dissonance that another reader mentioned. Having been through much loss, pain, and spiritual struggle, I can be with a parishioner in their time of need, without having all the answers, or the "theological solution." I can just be present with them, acknowledge their pain, and pray for God to comfort them in their time of need. From the pulpit, it clicked for me the day a parishioner told me I needed to change the assurance of pardon to "WE are forgiven" rather than "YOU are forgiven." When clergy preach, teach, and care for their parishioners from a place of authenticity, humanness, and equally in need of God's guidance and grace, then perhaps they will not burn out.kcfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05713418675022611748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-83947636583440033812012-03-15T14:57:01.836-04:002012-03-15T14:57:01.836-04:00"Why is it that Christians have to constantly..."Why is it that Christians have to constantly be refueled and recharged in order to keep going? Why do they have to be reminded all of the time that their God is real?"<br /><br />There are many answers to this question and a lack of answers to this question. One, being reminded that God is real is not a constant high. Two, the Evangelical church has fallen victim of American ideals and goals, one of which being that success reflects quantity and financial security. Often what we see in the Bible is not heartily reflected in the message we hear in the American church--the AMERICAN church. Evangelicals in other countries are often able to focus a lot better than we are.<br /><br />Evangelicals are often dishonest with themselves, lack maturity and sincere interest/intimacy with ordinary people who don't think and live like they do. I grew up in the Evangelical church and it is amazing to me how many Christians have no idea how to just talk to and be with others in a normal way.<br /><br />God is not God for our happiness. Being saved, delivered, and whatever else stems from being "saved" does not alleviate our suffering and confusion. <br /><br />I deconverted too, but I still believe in God and Jesus. My ideas about the Bible, science, and purpose all changed due to bad experiences with and in church and life in general.Screw Lucyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04593464129218497343noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-66896122559647905982011-08-19T19:53:41.001-04:002011-08-19T19:53:41.001-04:00The church along with the pastor as we have known ...The church along with the pastor as we have known it is not in the Bible. The church as we know it is one of, come in, sit down, face forward and contribute nothing. You sit there and listen to one person, usually the pastor, do it all. We all believe the Bible is the word of God. But we do follow what it says. I dare you. Look up the word church in the New Testament. Were did God have his church meet? That same New Testament says that when we come together we are all to share. The church today looks nothing at all like it shown to be in the New Testament. We have created something that God did not ask us to create. Need I say more.Mark, yours kindly.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09856190418764556394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-71429351463596950492010-07-20T00:31:22.858-04:002010-07-20T00:31:22.858-04:00Are these statistics regarding pastors worldwide, ...Are these statistics regarding pastors worldwide, or just the U.S.? It would be interesting to see the difference between U.S. and other countries, as the church in other places is completely different than in the U.S.Sherihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02916159886432737626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-78391683934862704192010-07-20T00:30:29.538-04:002010-07-20T00:30:29.538-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Sherihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02916159886432737626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-62381480811995728652010-06-14T00:01:40.423-04:002010-06-14T00:01:40.423-04:00The statistic about 57% of evangelical ministers f...The statistic about 57% of evangelical ministers feeling trapped in their profession reminded me of an interesting conversation I had with Fred Plumer, executive director of the Institute for Progressive Christianity. He said he frequently hears from lay leaders at fundamentalist churches who want to use some of the progressive teaching materials the Institute offers, but are stopped by their ministers -- not for theological reasons, but because the minister doesn't want to risk rocking the boat and losing his job. <br /><br />The 30% figure for evangelical ministers committing adultery with a parishioner reminded me of my wife's former pastor. As far as I know, he hasn't done it, but his wife did, and after some prayer (probably along the lines of, "Oh God, help me keep this a secret so I don't get fired") he decided to forgive her, and also the man who slept with her. In fact, there were quite a few adulterers, gamblers, thieves and liars in the congregation, who somehow could always find forgiveness and acceptance as long as they were not gay or Democrats.rcreative1noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-49595109945425342022010-05-24T00:56:56.174-04:002010-05-24T00:56:56.174-04:00Folks, the joke is that even Christians with all t...Folks, the joke is that even Christians with all that God-power can indeed suffer like the rest of us but in the end they have eternal life with that jerk! Christinsanity includes thorns! It doesn'take away challenges.<br /> David,yes, but these winnings don't help against depression in the here and now! And we humanists don't need heavenly rewards to do good,sir!<br /> "Logic is its own validation and reward and ultimate meaning." Inquiring LynnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-13033927097823661272010-05-21T13:07:26.034-04:002010-05-21T13:07:26.034-04:00Lottery winnings? Now there's one of the weake...Lottery winnings? Now there's one of the weaker analogies I've seen.RBHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13562135000111792590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-47677099534994546832010-05-21T09:33:53.883-04:002010-05-21T09:33:53.883-04:00Statistically, it could be demonstrated that a sig...Statistically, it could be demonstrated that a significant number of people who win a sizable sum of money through a lottery, end up in a worse financial condition than prior to receiving the windfall. Are we to necessarily conclude that the deposited money was not real? That may be the case indeed if perhaps the person is delusional, but it more likely that although the sum of money is real and truly deposited in their account, their wisdom in stewarding that money is what is really lacking. It is my observation that modern Christianity, with which I am intimately associated, is sadly deficient in discipling its adherents to live out a counter-cultural belief system. Many do, as many who receive a lottery winning are financially bettered. But neither success nor failure to wisely appropriate one's winnings undermines the reality of the winnings themselves.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03838145378973133704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-15166419795944552632010-05-21T07:13:50.773-04:002010-05-21T07:13:50.773-04:00it's interesting (terrifying?) that only 3% of...it's interesting (terrifying?) that only 3% of the christians in that pen/parchment poll said they were never depressed and only then because they were too scared to.<br /><br />as followers of ol' gautama can tell you, happiness comes from within. not from god or money or job satisfaction and surely not through fear. <br /><br />i would mention that i myself am quite confident in declaring that i would be happy in hellfire, but that would be very egotistical of me, so i won't. <br /><br />whoops.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-72640535596009747102010-05-20T13:27:12.039-04:002010-05-20T13:27:12.039-04:00But aren't Christians told they have the livin...But aren't Christians told they have the living God inside them? They have the Holy Spirit to guide them. They "can do all things thru Christ who strengthens me."<br /><br />Wouldn't you expect a different result in statistics with all that supernatural help? Why don't those powerful things actually help them?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-46504209261614814322010-05-20T12:02:51.572-04:002010-05-20T12:02:51.572-04:00Ken - "They should be the very cream of the c...Ken - "They should be the very cream of the crop as it relates to "true" Christians and yet look at the statistics. I didn't make these up. Jerry Falwell's son is concerned; the Francis Schaeffer insitute is concerned. You should be concerned."<br /><br />Both 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1 call for pastors to evidence a certain level of maturity for leadership. Most of those same qualifications were expected of deacons as well. Nowhere does the NT expect pastors to be free from the same struggles every other Christian deals with. I would point out that even Paul dealt with "professional" stress and matters of continuing sanctification (cf. Rom. 7:14ff; 2 Cor. 11:28). I believe one of the reasons many people get so disheartened when pastors experience the same struggles they experience is that they have historically expected pastors to be "super-Christians," rather than understand that their pastors are sinners saved by grace and being sanctified by the Holy Spirit just like them. Pastors are called to lead, model, and equip the saints. That is a high calling with commensurate pressure (cf. Don in TX). The other side of the coin is that too often pastors elevate themselves to a level God has not set for them. They expect themselves to be perfect when perfection in this life is not possible. I have found some of my most sincere and real ministry is when I share my faults with people. Pastors are not a specialized class of Christians. Such a laymen/clergy disparity has historically contributed to the current problem.<br /><br />For the record, I am concerned. These very things were the impetus behind my direction in my doctoral work. I do find it interesting that even secular companies and professions use the retreat methodology to provide training, respite, and a sense of fellowship and commraderie in their various fields. This is not Christian specific. <br /><br />My goal was to show that in spite of these issues, evangelical pastors are quite satisfied with their jobs. I would admit certain statistics are difficult to harmonize. Furthermore, pastoral stress is no different from that of other professions. Doctors, for example, have been trained to deal with patients, service providers, insurance companies, etc. They have a high degree of training and should be the cream of the crop. Why is their stress level and subsequent stress levels so high? <br /><br />Just because evangelical Christian pastors aren't "perfect" is not legitimate proof that Christianity is false. I haven't seen any research, but it would be interesting to see similar polls conducted of Rabbis, Catholic priests, and a good cross-section of religious leadership to see of these stats hold true universally or are specific to evangelical Christianity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-51376092272173021162010-05-20T11:33:23.606-04:002010-05-20T11:33:23.606-04:00You wrote: "The very name of the conference i...You wrote: "The very name of the conference is interesting-- Refuel . Why is it that Christians have to constantly be refueled and recharged in order to keep going? Why do they have to be reminded all of the time that their God is real?"<br /><br />Simple: You can't go very far on bullshit.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11054143288176644658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-86696927667004500782010-05-20T11:15:56.345-04:002010-05-20T11:15:56.345-04:00I was discouraged even before going into the minis...I was discouraged even before going into the ministry (so I didn't), and was getting more and more depressed just being an evangelical Christian. Now that I know it's not true, I can understand why one would have all the struggles that will manifest as a consequence. And until one realizes the falsehood therein, you will continue to experience these struggles. These surveys indicate that it is obviously not a matter of having this so-called "relationship with God" that "would" make a believers life any better than a non-believers.<br /><br />Don, "Pastors are just people", exactly. Yet the bible will have you think that no other occupation will show these similarities.Ignerant Phoolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13166860576010836032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-23162281876341801132010-05-20T10:15:22.889-04:002010-05-20T10:15:22.889-04:00Has anyone thought about the fact that every membe...Has anyone thought about the fact that every member of the congregation inundates the pastor with their problems. Perhaps, it is just human nature to become depressed when all you hear from other people are their problems. If you look at statistics among psychologists, marriage counsellors, and the like you will find very simislar results. Pastors are just people.Don in Texashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01227165980549208616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882699495059104312.post-2215017344642242342010-05-20T07:36:19.819-04:002010-05-20T07:36:19.819-04:00There's a interesting study yet to be done abo...There's a interesting study yet to be done about this "Family Values" leadership crowd given three aspects of the survey:<br /><br />77% felt they did not have a good marriage <br />38% said they were divorced or currently in a divorce process. <br />30% either has an ongoing affair or a one-time sexual encounter with a parishioner.IN NO INVISIBLE ALIEN WE (ATHEISTS) TRUSThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04985798916517821360noreply@blogger.com