Some recent letters on these pages and elsewhere have brought my attention to an important issue which is too often ignored or swept under a rug. It needs to be recognized that in some religious sects, the emphasis is clearly on fear. One is preached at to do whatever he’s told by the “sacred” texts or he will be very, very sorry. Imagine how frightening this world must be to those who believe that every word in those texts is the literal truth, who believe there are witches, demons and devils lurking in every dark corner, with the sole purpose of leading them astray and/or making their lives miserable. (I mean the kind of witches who allegedly suspend the laws of nature with incantations, potions, etc.) Clearly, for these people, life is a frightening passage over the knife edge of obedience to supernatural powers. One misstep can bring on the punishment of everlasting pain. This is indeed a very scary way to live.
This is the world that some churches and Sunday schools are teaching the children. Now, if the world really is like this, full of witches, demons and devils, then it would certainly be helpful to know this. But, if we are not certain this is true, does it make sense to send the kids down this fearful path? Life can be difficult enough for children, with all the insecurities they must deal with concerning fitting in with others, dealing with the opposite sex, deciding on a career path, and all the rest. Does it make sense to add the fear of an assortment of malevolent, supernatural creatures to their lives?
In the entire history of modern science, no claim of any type of supernatural phenomena has ever been replicated under strictly controlled conditions. I suggest that it makes sense for parents to do some research on this issue. Many people think the Bible has all the answers to how the world really works even though nothing in that book has changed for nearly 2,000 years. Would you consult a 2,000 year-old medical book on how to treat a cancer? The past few hundred years have seen an explosion of scientific knowledge and we are surrounded by the fruits of the scientific method. Science works. There’s really no reasonable argument on this issue. Consider the printing press this newspaper was printed on, and the automobile, airplane, computers, TV, vaccines, surgical procedures, Velcro, and the zipper in your pants. The fruits of successful science surround us.
Now, consider that supernatural causes were once attributed to thousands of things which we now can explain using only the laws of nature. These things include everything from thunder and lightning to volcanoes, hurricanes, earthquakes, childbirth and disease. Science works. Now, can you name just one thing that used to be explained by the laws of nature but has since been discovered to be supernaturally caused? Anything at all? No? Neither can anyone else. Do you see a pattern here?
In the entire history of modern science, no claim of any type of supernatural phenomena has ever been replicated under strictly controlled conditions.
Science doesn’t have all the answers and it never will, but it works; it continually expands and refines our knowledge of how the world actually works. Now, consider if you will that mainstream science has never uncovered any evidence whatsoever of witches, demons, or devils. If these things existed and had effects on our world, those interactions would be there for us to detect and measure.
Think about this: electrons are so tiny they are invisible to even the strongest microscopes and have never been seen. Yet, we have detected and measured their interactions with other objects and fields, written equations describing them, and can predict with great accuracy how they will act in various experiments. We know enough about them that we can design electronic circuits which give us the HDTV, the microwave oven, the computer and hundreds of other gadgets, plus those same electrons power our homes, giving us heat and light and the means to power dozens of other devices. Science works. Science is dependable.
Should you or your church and Sunday school be teaching your children about witches, demons, and devils when the only “evidence” for them consists of anecdotal claims and ancient texts written by people who thought the earth was flat (Matthew 4:8)? As Carl Sagan said, “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” This is why mainstream science has rejected these creatures.
Do you know what your kids are “learning” in Sunday school? Have you asked? Could it be that putting the fear of such creatures into children without very good cause is as immoral as threatening them with the boogeyman? Is there anything more important than the mental health of your children? Please think about it. Maybe your children will thank you some day, as mine have thanked me.
I think many people who went to evangelical Christian churches or Sunday Schools as children can relate to the fear of hell. Many churches capitalize on the fears of children in order to "get them saved." And then child evangelists and even adult evangelists come through and make it their goal to instill fear in the hearts of the children. How many children have gotten "saved" over and over again as another preacher came through with a terrifying story of hell or the devil. Does all of this constitute a form of child abuse? I think it does in some cases.
Yes i say it is child abuse.And maybe as science goes forward the effects can soon even be measured.Some people who lives have been tortured surely do deserve some compensation
ReplyDeleteHow many children have gotten "saved" over and over again as another preacher came through with a terrifying story of hell or the devil. Does all of this constitute a form of child abuse? I think it does in some cases.
ReplyDeleteHey, that was me!
When I left Christianity it was probably the hardest part to de-program. Which, I suppose, was the goal in the first place. I mean, if you can't entice someone to stay, you might as well threaten them with all the horrible things that will happen if they leave.
Which, really, is one of the primary reasons I've come to completely reject the Christianity I grew up with. There's the old saying, "If you love someone, let them go." The second part, which is oft left off, is something to the effect of, "If they love you, they'll come back." And that's what love should be. If you love someone you should want them to be happy. If they can't be happy with you, then you are making their life worse.
The opposite response, of course, is to hold on ever tighter and try to force the outcome you desire. This can easily become a form of abuse. It may even be a low level of abuse right from the start.
So I was always told that "god is love." But to me god always looked like an abusive, jealous, spiteful bully. Which wasn't really love. It was control.
Anon: Some people who lives have been tortured surely do deserve some compensation
And in this situation who, pray tell, should I be pursuing for compensation? My parents for sending me to church? My pastors for preaching about Hell? And if someone else came to the same conclusions I did because of things I taught them should I, too, be forced to offer compensation?
The fact is that in most cases the abusers are also the abused. It's a vicious, self-perpetrating cycle that most people inside are completely unaware of. You have to step outside in order to see it.
And as long as your in that world being forced to buy in to the idea that it's correct and must be perpetrated, you're both the victim and the victimizer. When I left I spent a long time being angry and trying to figure out who to blame. Eventually I realized that there was no one person and no one moment and that it was way, way more complicated than a simple fault-blame analysis. Once I realized that I realized that I had probably done to someone else what was done to me.
I've come to realize that the only solution is to dismantle the system.
Geds,
ReplyDeleteThanks for your comments. Yes I agree with you, there is no need for compensation. Its not the same as sexual abuse in which you have a specific act and specific criminal. But it is mental abuse in my opinion. I know that when I was a minister, I had many people come to me who were tormented since childhood as to whether or not they were really saved. Whenever an evangelist would come through the Christian school that was part of our ministry, I would have students lined up at my door worried that they were not "really" saved, even though they had asked the Lord to save them multiple times. Even when I was a Christian I despised these evangelists who used their rhetorical skills to terrify children and even adults. Their success was measured by how many people they got "saved." So anyone they could possibly shake up was just another notch in their belt.
BTW, Marlene Winell, a psychologist, in her excellent book, Leaving the Fold, tells story after story of people who were mentally abused in evangelical churches. Here is one told by a woman named Mary: I think it's sad that a six-year-old girl goes to bed at night in mortal fear that the Rapture is going to take place and God is going to leave her behind. Just total, total fear. Those fears stayed with me. I would go shopping with my parents and if I lost them in the store, I was sure that Christ had come back and I was left....Satan was a very real person, walking around trying to devour us. He was always trying to make us sin to make God unhappy...Satan was a very real power. I was scared to death of demons (pp. 139-40).
ReplyDeletecan you name just one thing that used to be explained by the laws of nature but has since been discovered to be supernaturally caused?
ReplyDeleteWell who created nature? Those natural laws you've discovered are the works of nature and someone created nature. IN other words, the natural is the supernatural.
By the way, regarding the general concept of the article:
ReplyDeleteWhat is the alternative to tell your kids if you don't tell about heaven/hell? That you may die at any moment and face termination? I am sure this will make them very comfortable.
John,
ReplyDeleteHow about telling them the truth--we don't know what happens when we die.
Ken
ReplyDeleteHow comforting is that? Besides, parents teaching their kids the bible would argue they are teaching the truth. Both are scary but kids who become saved should find comfort.
John: How comforting is that? Besides, parents teaching their kids the bible would argue they are teaching the truth. Both are scary but kids who become saved should find comfort.
ReplyDeleteUm, that's kind of the entire point of my comment. I didn't find comfort. Ken's comments about passing evangelists hit home for me because there were always people coming through saying, "Are you really, truly saved?"
See, here's the problem with the Evangelical system: you tell people to get saved and then they're free and clear. You then have the problem that Paul articulated, specifically the question of, should we keep sinning that grace shall increase? If you reduce your entire theology to, "Say this prayer this one time and you'll be saved," then there's absolutely nothing to stop people from, say, going on a multi-state killing spree, then flashing their get out of jail free card at the pearly gates.
If you're going to stick to that particular theology, then, the only way to do it and keep butts in the seats (not to mention cash in the offering plate) is to keep people scared about their salvation. So you leave that door open. Not everyone is influenced by the scare tactics, but the number of people who are is much, much higher than zero.
John: Well who created nature? Those natural laws you've discovered are the works of nature and someone created nature. IN other words, the natural is the supernatural.
That's a horribly illogical statement. You have a question, you posit a valid answer, then you make an impossible and self-destroying leap. To put it another way:
Let's say you're walking down the sidewalk and you find a watch. You look at it and see the gears that are intricately machined. You see the way it's been put together. You know that someone has to have created that watch, for it cannot possibly have spontaneously come in to existence in nature. There has to be a watchmaker. In other words, the watch is the watchmaker.
I, too, was beset by doubts about whether I was truly saved. And why not? I knew that there was such a thing as false conversion, so I couldn't be absolutely sure I wasn't one of the faux saints. (Does any other religion put people through this kind of mental meat grinder? I mean, are there Jews who walk around wondering if they're "real" Jews? I doubt it.)
ReplyDeleteChristians with an introspective bent, as I have, are highly susceptible to this misery. After all, I was keenly aware of my capacity for self-deception. I knew how often my heart grew cold and needed some inspiring book to heat it up. I knew how prone to sin I still was (despite all the NT verses about believers being "dead to sin," "no longer a slave to sin," etc.). And I had no real point of reference as to how a genuine saint should feel inside, so how could I be sure about the reality of my own regeneration?
Modern easy-believism wipes away a lot of the angst, but it also runs afoul of many NT texts, especially words from Jesus himself. So that never helped me. I knew it was unscriptural, and I considered its adherents -- even those trying to encourage me -- to be naive, ignorant. To make things worse, I frequently read 19th- and 18th-century literature from Calvinists who had a knack for making Christians feel thoroughly unsaved (and maybe even nonelect). Add devils and hell to the mix and you've got a recipe for chronic emotional disturbance.
What astonishes me is the number of Christians who believe all this troubling stuff and manage to retain a high level of joy. I never understood them and still don't.
John,
ReplyDeleteI would say its more comforting that scaring them to death with an eternal lake of fire. And none of us know anyway, you believe the Bible is true but others such as Muslims believe their book is true. Both the Koran and the Bible are just the musings of ancient men. They shouldn't be taken any more seriously than Greek mythology or any other ancient document.
Steve,
ReplyDeleteThe problem with you and me is that we were never "really" saved. Too bad, I guess for us we were just not part of the elect even though we wanted to be.
Ken: The problem with you and me is that we were never "really" saved. Too bad, I guess for us we were just not part of the elect even though we wanted to be.
ReplyDeleteI love the old weasel argument. Although my favorite is still the, "Maybe you weren't hanging around with the right kinds of Christians," argument that usually came from people I went to church with and had considered my friends.
Where were these legions of wrong kinds of Christians, exactly? Was I hanging out with them on Monday or something?
Steve: Christians with an introspective bent, as I have, are highly susceptible to this misery.
That was my problem, too. I would read some sort of promise in the Bible and think, "Wait, why isn't that happening in my life?" Or I'd read some sort of admonishment and think, "Oh, crap, how do I avoid that?" Or I would see the Bible said one thing and observable reality contradicted it.
It would begin a death spiral. I often lamented being intellectual and educated, as I realized that the only people who were truly happy in church were the ones who just believed and didn't think about it.
Geds,
ReplyDeleteThats the key--don't think. As long as you don't think everything is a okay.
I relate to all above-"Christians with this bent are highly susceptible to this misery." Well said!
ReplyDeleteI was always worrying about it and have prayed the sinner's prayer many, many times.
Those who just accept it all on sort of a surface level or are non-worrying types or non-analyzing types-all is well with them.
Geds "I've come to realize that the only solution is to dismantle the system."
ReplyDeleteThats all very fine.But whats going to prevent it from still happening?.Should we just make suggestions that school bullying isnt a good thing,or does something more need to be done about it to try to prevent it happening.
Do we allow use of torture in society,if we dont why is it allowed to be used by religion.
There is nothing illegal about the freedom to use of psychological religious torture at present,so nobody can be held accountable.But that doesnt do anything to prove thats how it should stay.How much less long term damaging has it been proved, than sexual abuse is?.
If you try saying this problem isnt deserving of any compensation.You are suggesting its quite fine to cause quite permanent damage to the human mind,but you cannot do damage to human sexuality.
WOW! The experience of you guys is almost identical to mine! Steve, I, too, was involved in heavily calvinistic circles that emphasized the law, but at the same time I tried to embrace the easy-believism taught by several evangelical Bible teachers. It would be comforting for a while but eventually I had to come back to reality because deep down I knew that the free grace and easy believism message contradicted several passages in the Bible. Like you guys, this led to horrible anxiety, and for someone who tends to get anxious naturally like I do, this was not a good situation.
ReplyDeleteAlso, the more and more I thought and asked questions, people started accusing me of being "too intellectual" and not believing this by faith. I have news for these people. If they think I'm some big intellectual, they must be REALLY freaking stupid, because I'm no smarter than the average John or Jane Doe. However, for these people (evangelical/fundamentalist Christians), anyone who needs actual and indisputable evidence to believe something is too intellectual and a troublemaker.
Ken, how right you are. The way to be a good church member and a good fundie is to stop thinking, don't ask questions, and believe everything that the Bible says or everything that the preacher says the Bible says.
To Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteYou can put your finger on the perpetrator of sexual abuse. It's easily defined. But do you really want the courts to decide who did and didn't contribute to a person's emotional distress over religion?
I'm tired of people thinking they have a "right" to go through life without anyone upsetting them.
"If they think I'm some big intellectual, they must be REALLY freaking stupid ..."
ReplyDeleteHa! That's funny. I feel the same way. Some days, I can barely figure out how to get my socks on. And I'm too intellectual?
Many intellectuals are bible believers, it is not simply for the non-thinkers.
ReplyDeleteIntellectual Bible-believers must -- and I mean MUST -- decide ahead of time as a non-negotiable tenet that nothing can or will falsify their belief, no matter what ... ever. And they must react to every piece of evidence against their views as a threat. Otherwise it just won't work.
ReplyDeleteAnon: I'm just going to refer to what Steve said:
ReplyDeleteYou can put your finger on the perpetrator of sexual abuse. It's easily defined. But do you really want the courts to decide who did and didn't contribute to a person's emotional distress over religion?
John:
Yes. There are many intellectuals who are Bible believers. However, they generally fall in to two categories. First, you've got your pretty liberal believers who will spend a lot of time going outside of the Bible in order to resolve problems that they see and are the sort who is seen as just as dangerous to the Biblical truths as those non-believers by the fundamentalists. Second, you've got your intellectuals who have completely walled off entire fields of knowledge (trading actual science for Intelligent Design claptrap, or limiting the study of history to Biblical history, for instance) and focus only on those things that are allowed, such as, well, theology.
You can be an intellectual and a Christian. However, you cannot be a truly free thinking and erudite intellectual and be a fundamentalist Christian. It's right there in all the warnings about giving in to worldly learning and how men are fools compared to god.
Steve J "You can put your finger on the perpetrator of sexual abuse"
ReplyDeleteYes and with future advances in nuroscience who says it will be impossible to prove extreme psychological torture.That wont take courts to decide.
"I'm tired of people thinking they have a "right" to go through life without anyone upsetting them."
So you feel putting somebody through long term ammounts of extreme psychological torture,ammounts to people expecting the right to go through life without anyone ever upsetting them?.
I dont care less if you agree or not.But i see some situations as a lot more than you discribed here.Amongst some faith groups extreme long term psychological torment exists.And to help finish that happening,i would be one person who would vote that it becomes an actual offence.
If abusers in war camps should be held acountable for such abusive long term practice with people they hold as captives.I dont see its so very different if some parents put their children through such long term nastiness.
You however might considder you might be able to stop this type of abusive ancient barbaric action by simply suggesting people might cease doing it.
I see that idea as about as likely as expecting slavery to simply cease, without us having made it an offence.
I dont suggest people should have the right to go through life without anyone ever upsetting them.No not at all.
But i dont see that having children, gives any parent the right to put that child through any long term psychological abuse, that causes that child extreme harm, either.
Im talking causing extreme psychological harm being an offence.Specially when perpetrated by parents, who are supposed to be extra caring and loving.
Why suggest that simply equates to expecting to go through life without ever being upset by anybody?.
Im somebody who can handle people upsetting me.Im somebody who dont even mind a bit of rough and tumble ,and if need be i can sure take care of myself should anyone try pushing me around to much.You betcha i can.
ReplyDeleteBut so happens i have had personal experience with the long lasting effects of this religious psychological torture.I didnt only effect me,it effected many others around me also .Brothers ,sisters,aunts,uncles ,friends.
Some so bad they committed suicide.Others have become lost and disturbed and continually tormented.
I would far rather to have been physically abused.I know others who feel very much the same way.
Physical abuse is often an offence.But psychological abuse specially when perpetrated by religion is still quite legal, even if psychological abuse can be far more damaging in the long term for some people.
I sometimes ask myself.Why would folks see this as being so moral.
Anon:
ReplyDeleteLook, really, I get what you're trying to say. But I strongly suspect that you never lived in the Evangelical Christian community and certainly didn't grow up in it.
Those of us who did -- in this case specifically me, Steve, and Ken -- are telling you that it is not nearly as clear-cut as you seem to think it is.
Yes, there are those religious places where the psychological torture is extreme. Those are generally divided off in to a separate category and labeled "cults." The term "cult," in and of itself, is not a particular useful term and is often used as a bogeyman in an attempt to marginalize different strain of religion. As such it is possible and defensible to label basically any form of religion as a cult.
But for the sake of argument I'm going to draw a bright line distinction here using an ad hoc definition of "cult" and say that on one side of the line there are individuals and organizations that specifically and intentionally psychologically abused their followers for profit and on the other the followers are abused but not in any specific and intentional way by any specific purpose.
The vast majority of Evangelical Christianity falls under the non-"cult" categorization. Most people are operating in good faith according to their beliefs. There are some I suspect are not (generally names like Pat Robertson get tossed out at this point. But I'm talking about the people who sit in the pews at the church down the street), but most people genuinely believe in the things they claim to believe and, as such, genuinely believe in the consequences they warn and preach about.
In that situation, who do you blame? And is laying blame and taking people to court really going to solve any problems? Those of us who were in that world are saying that it won't. We were all victims to some extent and we were all abusers to some extent. There is no way of getting around that.
Those who perpetuate the system usually do so out of fear. But it's not generally fear that they'll lose power or influence or money. It's the fear that they'll be punished by god. So they hold on because they're terrified of the consequences.
I cannot direct hatred at the people who prop up the system out of a genuine belief in it. I cannot even hate the ones who I know directly hurt me in some ways. I pity them.
I strongly suspect that most people who have left and worked through their anger feel the same way. I've run in to enough who do to believe it's pretty common.
So, please, drop it. You just don't get it and you're trying to fight a battle that doesn't need to be fought and that shouldn't be fought.
Geds .."Look, really, I get what you're trying to say. But I strongly suspect that you never lived in the Evangelical Christian community and certainly didn't grow up in it."
ReplyDeleteNo i grew up in a cult Geds.Whether you wish to believe it or not.
Have a read here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_Brethren
A few of the suicides are recorded here http://peebs.net/In_Memoriam/
Now what flavour religion did you grow up with?.Might help me better understand you.
Geds"I cannot direct hatred at the people who prop up the system out of a genuine belief in it. I cannot even hate the ones who I know directly hurt me in some ways. I pity them."
ReplyDeleteWas your brother driven to suicide by Christians Geds?
Anon:
ReplyDeleteI would agree that the Exclusive Brethren fit under the definition of "cult" that I outlined above. And I can certainly understand your anger and am sorry if you think I've been belittling your specific experience.
And I'd agree that any cult that should be stopped. I'd put the Exclusive Brethren in the same category as Scientology for the purposes of this discussion. And I've love to see Scientology shut down and heads roll.
However, Ken, Steve, and I have been talking about our experiences in the more mainstream Evangelical circles. I get the distinct impression that if you understand Ken's Christian experience you understand mine: a collection of well-meaning but misguided and short-sighted people.
In point of fact, I don't know anyone who was driven to suicide because of my church. I haven't been ostracized for leaving. I'm regarded as a strange and probably mis-led apostate, but everyone is still friendly enough when I run in to them (which doesn't really happen now that I live a thousand miles from there, but hey...).
This, I think, is a specific (and, again, bright line) difference. I could leave. The costs for leaving are more theoretical than concrete. So the abuse that Ken brought up in the original post and that Steve and I experienced is more of a soft, systemic abuse. The problems are diffuse, pinpoint, and fix.
The abuse of a cult is a hard, directed abuse. Specific people and strategies and moments can be picked out. And specific people can be held accountable.
So the problem here is that we've been talking apples and oranges without truly realizing it.
No offence taken by me Geds,i realized our problem was with the apples and oranges.And no im with you and Ken and Steve on not punishing those churches who are not so harsh and nasty.Infact i dont really wish to punish anyone,because at the moment as laws stand its been laid out as a bit of free-for-all,and these groups of people are hard to define as really having been doing anything thats been considdered so illegal.Making it not completely really their fault, by my thinking.
ReplyDeleteMy personal opinion is only that it needs to be changed,and better boundarys need to be set.Making it then an offence to keep stepping over them.
I fully understand what you said when explaining many of these folks are only misguided,and honestly do fully believe their abuse of children this way is for good reasons.And for saving children from ending up in hell and eternal suffering.
Im just stating an opinion of mine!, that i dont see the fact they might have thought their abuse was done for very good loving reasons,makes it any more moral or ok, than say an abusive parent who might badly beat a child, while fully believing its only for love and good and benefit of the child.This has happened,but we have made laws to try and help it cease happening.
That they thought they abused for good reason,makes it little more ok or even little more moral.Its still very wrong,and needs to stop
You said"In point of fact, I don't know anyone who was driven to suicide because of my church. I haven't been ostracized for leaving"
I have seen and experienced it all,many many times over.There is areas in our own societies, where this type tyranny still goes unchecked.There is no need to look toward Kim Jung-il or the Taliban to find it.
Im just stating an opinion of mine!, that i dont see the fact they might have thought their abuse was done for very good loving reasons,makes it any more moral or ok, than say an abusive parent who might badly beat a child, while fully believing its only for love and good and benefit of the child.This has happened,but we have made laws to try and help it cease happening.
ReplyDeleteAnd in that, I'd say we can agree. The point that hit me hardest was when I fully realized how pervasive the entire culture of abuse was.
When I left I was mad. I wanted to find someone to direct my anger against. There were a few easy targets, but they were people I hadn't liked to begin with. Then I started to blame other people who I knew had taught me things I now despised. But then I realized that the people who had taught me had once been the people I respected most. And I realized that they had probably never intended to do harm, but they were just teaching what they believed.
Then I realized that I, too, had been a teacher. I, too, had genuinely believed the things that I now count as abuse. So I had probably heaped coals upon someone else's forehead without realizing it.
And that's the problem with stopping it. It's not like there are the jailers and the jailed. We can't have an Evangelical equivalent of the Nuremburg Trials. It's more like we were all thrown in to prison, then the warden and the guards told one guy the fields outside were filled with land mines and left.
From then on out it was the prisoners trying to keep each other inside. So the only way to fix it is to knock down the walls and show there aren't any land mines.
And that's an extremely difficult task.
Anon,
ReplyDeleteIf someone commits suicide as a direct result of the abuse from the church, then I think there may be grounds for a lawsuit. I am not an attorney but perhaps it would be good to consult one on this matter.
Thanks Geds and Ken.
ReplyDelete"From then on out it was the prisoners trying to keep each other inside. So the only way to fix it is to knock down the walls and show there aren't any land mines.
And that's an extremely difficult task"
I do agree.But what makes it so much harder is dealing with these cult is lots like dealing with those confined in solitary confinement,with absolutely no visiting rights allowed at all.
You almost need to have faith that hopefully ESP will work,when they dont allow any TVs, Radios, and even firmly discourage members from reading newspapers.Books and learning materials at their schools are highly censored, and any offending pages are ripped out.Even any cell phones and computers members use,must be purchased through cult bosses, and these have been programmed? somehow so that only certain material is available to be viewed on them.Naturally some naughty members dont strictly follow this rule,but these people are still locked up in imaginary chains,because should it be found out what they are doing they will be excommunicated and could lose all contact forever more with their wife or husband and kids and all the family and friends they ever knew.
These people nearly might as well live and breath in a whole totally different world.
And when it comes to court cases,often you are really up against it all far to much,because this group really can very quickly! lay its hands on mega money that seems like it flows from some endless pit.And lots like tactics of people like the Taliban, should ex members outside this cult, attempt court cases, the family still inside the cult will need to bear extra shame and abuse! because of the attempt.
But even so,in my opinion its still only a matter of time!, and i know some day the walls will have to crumble.
Once the rest of the world loses more of its fears in these superstitions!,and realizes all the dangers and harm many face because of them.There has to be more chance that someday something more will be done about it all.
Which is why i am so very thankful that blogs like Kens blog do exist.
Because any attempt made by any ex members to break down the cult wall,is countered in a Taliban type way by cult boses by shaming and abusing the family and extended members still left inside the cult.
ReplyDeleteIts for this very reason it highly important that the world at large is educated more about the situation .
Because we are in so much need of the support of other people who are not associated at all in any way with this cult.
Because that way the cult bosses cannot! try and suggest its an attack that reflects badly on family members inside.And it strips the cult bosses! of the right to try and use this type of ammo against the captives.
Not sure if you understand quite what i mean, however folks on this blog all seem like pretty smart cookies! so im picking most likely you all do understand.
Until more outsiders decide to also become involved and give us some vocal support from the sides of the field ,it tends to be (made to look) like its (only) really an attack by a few disgruntle ex members.
And so the blinkers stay on.The cult continues on forward.The members have little hope of ever gaining release.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete"Not sure if you understand quite what i mean, however folks on this blog all seem like pretty smart cookies! so im picking most likely you all do understand."
ReplyDeleteMeaning i know i dont explain myself well